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[Music]

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hello

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and welcome to episode number 25 of the

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point of convergence podcast

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as always i'm your host exo academian

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for anyone who spent any degree of time

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and energy

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researching the collective enigma known

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as the ufo phenomenon

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one thing is clear this topic is as

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elusive almost absurdly so

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as it is obsessively fascinating not

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only do the manifestations of these

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phenomena

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in and of themselves tantalize mesmerize

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and bewilder anyone who's paying close

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attention

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to the bizarre array of feats performed

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by the apparently non-humanly crafted

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aerial vehicles coined ufos or uap

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but the way the intelligences behind

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this phenomenon

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are able to manipulate human perception

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and or experience

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only further complicates this already

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murky

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if astonishing and invigorating subject

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matter

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regardless of how someone enters this

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conversation

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whether that be as a result of a nuts

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and bolts interest in next-gen

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technology

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and or an interaction with an

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intelligent non-human biological species

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or via a profoundly spiritual personal

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encounter

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with entities that are perceived as so

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superior and

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otherworldly that an expression like

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celestial being

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seems more appropriate than a blunt and

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crude term

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like alien this subject matter quickly

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expands into a wide-ranging

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and profound mystery one that inevitably

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leads to questions about the very nature

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of reality itself with decades of data

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now behind us

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there have been no shortage of

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hypotheses put forth

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to explain the nature meaning and origin

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of this phenomenon

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of course sometimes a particular

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hypothesis put forward

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will say as much about the worldview of

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the group proposing it

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as it does the nature of the encounters

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themselves

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and this is of course because regardless

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of how discombobulating these

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experiences can be

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for witnesses and or contactees slash

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abductees

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at the end of the day as with anything

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we have to try to make sense of them

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by slotting them into pre-ordained

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possibilities

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dictated by our reality paradigm

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even when a researcher tries to focus on

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a singular aspect of the data

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an honest thorough assessment of reports

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will often quickly lead the inquiry

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into another area altogether and that

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often creates

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understandable confusion for instance

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oftentimes these events are so complex

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that one is left wondering

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if the psychological aspect somehow

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manifests the apparent physicality

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or vice versa by way of example

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when physical phenomena are observed

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that supposedly violate

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our very notions of physics of how we

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assume the world

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works we're left wondering does this

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mean our perception

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is being played with somehow or that our

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very understanding of reality is

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being exposed as woefully incomplete

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if not almost wholly misguided

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as mentioned already over the last

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several decades

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a wide variety of hypotheses have been

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advanced

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to try to make sense of the ufo

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phenomenon

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so many possible explanations have

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emerged in fact

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that any attempt to keep track of the

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plethora of proposed explanations

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can in itself be dizzying that

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said one way one can organize these

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various hypotheses

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into a digestible and comprehensible

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whole

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is to view them from three different

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high altitude perspectives

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the psychic the physical and the trans

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physical

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and that's exactly the approach we'll

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employ to make sense of this enigmatic

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topic

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in this the 25th episode of the point of

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part of what makes studying the ufo

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phenomenon

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so challenging is that it's not exactly

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something you can recreate in a lab

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scenario

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to make sure that your hypothesis holds

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its weight

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now different researchers will examine

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different kinds of evidence

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different bodies of evidence and there

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isn't even an agreed upon

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assessment of what should count as

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evidence and so therefore it's not

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surprising that we end up with different

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hypotheses

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because different researchers are

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and of course that's only one of the

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challenges

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another challenge is that we just don't

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know how many players there are within

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the ufo phenomenon

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as i've mentioned numerous times before

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while we

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refer to it as a phenomenon singular

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it's almost certainly a collection of

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phenomena

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perhaps by multiple actors and different

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hypotheses could apply to different

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actors

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and perhaps where we're going wrong is

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that we're trying too often to slot it

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into one category

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perhaps that's a ill-advised way to

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approach this

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another issue is that of course the

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world views of the researchers

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themselves

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bleed into the data they bleed into the

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process by which researchers even

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consider something as

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possible and when you exclude certain

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phenomena

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from the get-go you're going to end up

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skewing the data

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and that happens time and time again

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because of the worldview bias

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on behalf of some of the researchers

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and the truth is even if you have an

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open mind and you're willing to consider

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almost every hypothesis in the book even

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ones that expand

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or completely collapse our former view

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of reality

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you're still left with very confusing

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confounding data

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and that may be part of the challenge

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that the government is running into

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in terms of trying to make sense of this

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they're not even sure what laws to apply

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to it for instance

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now dr eric davis is a scientist who

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advises the us government

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he was involved in atip the advanced

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aerospace threat identification program

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headed by luella zondo and he was also

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part

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of the advanced weapons special

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application program

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as well as other programs run by the

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government

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he knows as much as anyone when it comes

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to privileged classified information

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pertaining to the ufo slash uap

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subject and according to dr davis quote

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there is a lot of evidence that the

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government has known but the problem is

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it's so outside the realm of human

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comprehension

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that they can't deal with it on a

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legislative basis

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they can't deal with it on a military

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operational basis

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they can't deal with it on the basis of

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presidential policy

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unquote as i mentioned

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in the introduction today we're going to

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look at the ufo phenomenon

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from three high altitude perspectives

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the psychic the physical and the trans

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physical

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and this can be helpful because

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sometimes if you have a preferred

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hypothesis and you're always drilling

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down

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and trying to fit the data within that

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hypothesis

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you can actually lose your way sometimes

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you can become

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biased because you're so committed to

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that hypothesis we're all guilty of that

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or at least potentially so it's always

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good to

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question your questions and periodically

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step back

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and look at the entire thing from a

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different perspective

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and again as i said today we're going to

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look at a variety of hypotheses

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but within this lens of physical

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trans physical and psychical now this

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term psychic or psychical

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we're using in the way that jacques

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valet has used it

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and for valet it referred to the

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relationship between

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now the reason why valet was so focused

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on this psychical aspect

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is because when he would interview

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different witnesses different contactees

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he would find that it was such a

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profound and transformative experience

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for the individual that it sometimes is

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difficult to tell if the

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change was primarily happening inside

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their consciousness

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or in the reality out there in other

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words

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is this phenomena manifesting in the

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real world

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that a another observer could see it as

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well

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or is it only happening within the

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consciousness the perception

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of a particular individual there

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definitely seems to be cases where

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it can manifest just inside the

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consciousness of one individual

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and in fact two different people can

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have two different

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uh experiences of the same event and

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this is why the psychic aspect is so key

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for valet and others and of course valet

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also talked about his control system

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hypothesis for which i dedicated

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an entire podcast episode to the idea

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there is that

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whatever is behind the phenomenon or

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this aspect of the phenomenon

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may be trying to change our culture

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change our civilization

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which of course is a collection of

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cultures and it does this

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incrementally over time by adjusting

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boundaries of a control system

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this could be an intelligence a group of

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entities or even a vast ai system

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there's different ways it could work

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but the idea is this works incrementally

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and

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subversively on the level of the

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collective

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subconscious of humankind and

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in that sense it's very difficult to

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track and to understand even that

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as it's happening but the result is

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still inevitable it helps

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manage human evolution this is a key

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aspect of the psychic aspect

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now of course anyone who studied this

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for any amount of time

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also knows there are definitely physical

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aspects to this phenomenon too

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it's not an either or it's definitely a

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both and

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physical aspects include things like

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radar returns

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and even markings in the ground burnt

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markings in the ground or

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indentations where a craft has landed

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00:10:38,949 --> 00:10:36,480
people have

295
00:10:40,389 --> 00:10:38,959
markings on their body implants have

296
00:10:42,949 --> 00:10:40,399
even been removed from people

297
00:10:44,470 --> 00:10:42,959
so there's a variety of ways that this

298
00:10:47,269 --> 00:10:44,480
definitely seems to

299
00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:47,279
show up in ways that suggest it's

300
00:10:51,990 --> 00:10:49,760
manifesting in our reality as

301
00:10:53,590 --> 00:10:52,000
physical objects that can be measured by

302
00:10:56,790 --> 00:10:53,600
instruments not just by human

303
00:11:00,470 --> 00:10:58,389
and of course what's even more

304
00:11:02,870 --> 00:11:00,480
interesting and perplexing

305
00:11:05,990 --> 00:11:02,880
is that often both psychic and physical

306
00:11:08,630 --> 00:11:06,000
effects are observed in the same event

307
00:11:09,829 --> 00:11:08,640
recently i did an entire podcast on the

308
00:11:11,670 --> 00:11:09,839
events at fatima

309
00:11:12,949 --> 00:11:11,680
and of course that's a prime example of

310
00:11:14,710 --> 00:11:12,959
where the

311
00:11:16,550 --> 00:11:14,720
effects were noticed in the

312
00:11:18,230 --> 00:11:16,560
consciousness of the individuals and

313
00:11:20,550 --> 00:11:18,240
that different individuals would have

314
00:11:21,670 --> 00:11:20,560
different experiences even different

315
00:11:23,590 --> 00:11:21,680
messages they even

316
00:11:25,509 --> 00:11:23,600
saw different things in terms of what

317
00:11:27,670 --> 00:11:25,519
they reported afterwards

318
00:11:29,269 --> 00:11:27,680
but there were also physical aspects

319
00:11:32,310 --> 00:11:29,279
that manifested as well that were

320
00:11:35,670 --> 00:11:32,320
observed by people even 10 miles away

321
00:11:37,430 --> 00:11:35,680
this includes light phenomenon

322
00:11:39,829 --> 00:11:37,440
atmospheric phenomena temperature

323
00:11:40,150 --> 00:11:39,839
effects all of these things were noticed

324
00:11:42,150 --> 00:11:40,160
by

325
00:11:45,509 --> 00:11:42,160
a broad assortment of people even very

326
00:11:47,430 --> 00:11:45,519
far away remember up to 70 000 people

327
00:11:51,750 --> 00:11:47,440
witnessed the penultimate event at

328
00:11:56,870 --> 00:11:54,230
also let us not forget as i mentioned in

329
00:11:59,910 --> 00:11:56,880
that podcast episode on fatima

330
00:12:00,389 --> 00:11:59,920
what's intriguing is even though 70 000

331
00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:00,399
people

332
00:12:06,470 --> 00:12:04,000
saw something even up to 10 miles away

333
00:12:07,829 --> 00:12:06,480
and we're talking major things were

334
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:07,839
observed the atmosphere

335
00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:10,959
changed drastically the sun dim to the

336
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:12,720
point where stars and the moon were

337
00:12:17,590 --> 00:12:13,760
observed

338
00:12:20,230 --> 00:12:17,600
in the background and yet astronomical

339
00:12:21,910 --> 00:12:20,240
observatories did not pick up anything

340
00:12:23,750 --> 00:12:21,920
in other words if you weren't in that

341
00:12:25,430 --> 00:12:23,760
region if you were looking at the data

342
00:12:27,670 --> 00:12:25,440
returns from

343
00:12:29,670 --> 00:12:27,680
observatories from well beyond that

344
00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:29,680
region nothing was seen

345
00:12:33,670 --> 00:12:31,440
there was nothing in instrumentation to

346
00:12:34,790 --> 00:12:33,680
say that something quote unquote really

347
00:12:37,110 --> 00:12:34,800
happened

348
00:12:38,870 --> 00:12:37,120
and yet seventy thousand people will

349
00:12:41,110 --> 00:12:38,880
tell you otherwise

350
00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:41,120
so what does that suggest it suggests

351
00:12:46,710 --> 00:12:44,000
that this phenomenon is somehow able to

352
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:46,720
manipulate the consciousness of perhaps

353
00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:48,959
tens of thousands of people

354
00:12:52,069 --> 00:12:51,440
because what are we left with if we know

355
00:12:54,629 --> 00:12:52,079
that our

356
00:12:55,750 --> 00:12:54,639
instruments are not picking this up we

357
00:12:58,069 --> 00:12:55,760
assume that it's not

358
00:12:59,509 --> 00:12:58,079
really manifesting in physical reality

359
00:13:01,670 --> 00:12:59,519
the way that we really think

360
00:13:02,949 --> 00:13:01,680
physical reality is supposed to work

361
00:13:05,269 --> 00:13:02,959
which again makes us

362
00:13:07,110 --> 00:13:05,279
question when you really look into this

363
00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:07,120
is our notion of reality

364
00:13:15,509 --> 00:13:13,269
and that's a perfect example to lead us

365
00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:15,519
into the third category the third lens

366
00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:16,720
through which we're looking at this

367
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:17,760
phenomenon

368
00:13:21,190 --> 00:13:20,639
the trans physical here we're talking

369
00:13:23,350 --> 00:13:21,200
about

370
00:13:24,629 --> 00:13:23,360
the fact that sometimes even though

371
00:13:27,590 --> 00:13:24,639
these things are observed

372
00:13:29,829 --> 00:13:27,600
in physical reality it seems to be a

373
00:13:31,990 --> 00:13:29,839
kind of physical reality that violates

374
00:13:34,150 --> 00:13:32,000
our notion of how physics is supposed to

375
00:13:36,389 --> 00:13:34,160
work even our cutting edge notion

376
00:13:38,790 --> 00:13:36,399
of physics here we're talking about

377
00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:38,800
things like objects that start as one

378
00:13:42,710 --> 00:13:40,720
break up into multiple objects and then

379
00:13:45,509 --> 00:13:42,720
seamlessly come back together

380
00:13:46,949 --> 00:13:45,519
or objects that change shape vastly

381
00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:46,959
change shape

382
00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:50,320
or when contactees slash

383
00:13:54,069 --> 00:13:53,120
abductees report noticing a craft that's

384
00:13:55,670 --> 00:13:54,079
a certain size

385
00:13:57,750 --> 00:13:55,680
when they see it outside but once

386
00:14:00,150 --> 00:13:57,760
they're inside it seems much much

387
00:14:01,750 --> 00:14:00,160
larger and sometimes the entire

388
00:14:02,550 --> 00:14:01,760
structure inside seems completely

389
00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:02,560
different

390
00:14:06,389 --> 00:14:05,120
than what they saw on the outside or

391
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:06,399
sometimes again

392
00:14:10,389 --> 00:14:08,320
this is where it crosses over into is it

393
00:14:12,870 --> 00:14:10,399
physical or is it cyclical

394
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:12,880
different contactees will even notice

395
00:14:15,030 --> 00:14:14,240
completely different shapes on the

396
00:14:16,629 --> 00:14:15,040
outside

397
00:14:18,470 --> 00:14:16,639
but then the same shape once they're

398
00:14:20,230 --> 00:14:18,480
inside and once they're inside they can

399
00:14:22,389 --> 00:14:20,240
also recognize each other

400
00:14:24,470 --> 00:14:22,399
so this is the trans physical aspect

401
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:24,480
where it seems to be happening in

402
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:25,680
physical reality

403
00:14:33,750 --> 00:14:28,560
but in a way that violates our notion of

404
00:14:37,750 --> 00:14:36,629
and of course within this trans physical

405
00:14:40,710 --> 00:14:37,760
lens we're also

406
00:14:41,910 --> 00:14:40,720
thinking of interdimensional aspects

407
00:14:45,269 --> 00:14:41,920
here we're talking about

408
00:14:48,389 --> 00:14:45,279
both entities and craft that seemingly

409
00:14:50,230 --> 00:14:48,399
pop into existence within our reality

410
00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:50,240
like a window opens and suddenly they're

411
00:14:55,350 --> 00:14:52,320
there where they weren't a second ago

412
00:14:56,550 --> 00:14:55,360
and just as easily they can vanish and

413
00:14:59,189 --> 00:14:56,560
this suggests that they

414
00:14:59,590 --> 00:14:59,199
are indeed manifesting in our reality

415
00:15:01,790 --> 00:14:59,600
but

416
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:01,800
they are perhaps coming in

417
00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:03,360
instantaneously

418
00:15:06,389 --> 00:15:05,360
from a portal of some sort from a

419
00:15:09,350 --> 00:15:06,399
different dimension

420
00:15:10,629 --> 00:15:09,360
perhaps a mirror universe or an

421
00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:10,639
alternate earth

422
00:15:14,230 --> 00:15:12,480
but it doesn't seem like distance or

423
00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:14,240
travel is involved so

424
00:15:19,350 --> 00:15:17,360
again you have this complication of it's

425
00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:19,360
manifesting in physical reality but

426
00:15:22,629 --> 00:15:20,800
manifesting in a way

427
00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:22,639
we can't make sense of based on our

428
00:15:27,269 --> 00:15:24,000
current understanding

429
00:15:29,509 --> 00:15:27,279
of how physics works

430
00:15:30,550 --> 00:15:29,519
so so far we've discussed different ways

431
00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:30,560
that this

432
00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:33,120
phenomenon manifests in ways that are so

433
00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:34,320
perplexing

434
00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:36,160
that we can't really wrap our minds

435
00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:37,680
around it uh

436
00:15:41,590 --> 00:15:40,240
based on our current notions of reality

437
00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:41,600
now sometimes

438
00:15:45,030 --> 00:15:43,600
in fact often times when it comes to

439
00:15:46,629 --> 00:15:45,040
science if you find

440
00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:46,639
you keep banging your head against a

441
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:48,720
wall because some data just won't fit

442
00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:50,480
within a hypothesis

443
00:15:53,509 --> 00:15:52,560
this often is a sure sign that your

444
00:15:56,230 --> 00:15:53,519
hypothesis

445
00:15:58,150 --> 00:15:56,240
is wrong or perhaps the assumptions that

446
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:58,160
you bring to your hypothesis because

447
00:16:01,749 --> 00:15:58,560
almost

448
00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:01,759
every hypothesis begins with some givens

449
00:16:05,110 --> 00:16:03,440
some assumptions about the nature of

450
00:16:08,310 --> 00:16:05,120
reality and

451
00:16:09,990 --> 00:16:08,320
if the data refuses to fit in total

452
00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:10,000
then that might be telling you something

453
00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:12,480
about either your hypothesis being wrong

454
00:16:15,990 --> 00:16:14,160
or the assumptions you bring to the

455
00:16:18,949 --> 00:16:16,000
hypothesis

456
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:18,959
and here we think of john mack and how

457
00:16:23,590 --> 00:16:21,600
he rejected these dualistic notions

458
00:16:25,189 --> 00:16:23,600
that we bring to the table when we try

459
00:16:28,230 --> 00:16:25,199
and form hypotheses

460
00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:28,240
about the ufo phenomenon this is what

461
00:16:32,150 --> 00:16:29,360
john mack said

462
00:16:33,189 --> 00:16:32,160
quote i object to the either ordinance

463
00:16:36,069 --> 00:16:33,199
of this

464
00:16:37,590 --> 00:16:36,079
why couldn't aliens be real and not real

465
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:37,600
at the same time

466
00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:40,880
inhabiting some liminal zone modern

467
00:16:45,749 --> 00:16:43,199
physics was replete with contradictions

468
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:45,759
as in quantum superposition where chunks

469
00:16:49,749 --> 00:16:47,040
of matter could occupy

470
00:16:50,069 --> 00:16:49,759
two different places at the same time in

471
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:50,079
any

472
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:52,320
case he said the phenomenon could not be

473
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:54,240
explained psychiatrically

474
00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:56,000
the people with whom i have been working

475
00:17:01,110 --> 00:16:57,360
as far as i can tell

476
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:01,120
are telling the truth unquote

477
00:17:05,429 --> 00:17:03,040
and by the way that quote was from ralph

478
00:17:08,470 --> 00:17:05,439
blumenthal's excellent biography

479
00:17:09,990 --> 00:17:08,480
of dr john mack called the believer and

480
00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:10,000
i did a review of that book

481
00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:12,240
in episode number 11 of the point of

482
00:17:17,429 --> 00:17:15,360
convergence podcast

483
00:17:19,029 --> 00:17:17,439
okay so at this point i think i've set

484
00:17:21,270 --> 00:17:19,039
the table sufficiently

485
00:17:23,429 --> 00:17:21,280
in terms of discussing how the data

486
00:17:25,750 --> 00:17:23,439
regarding the ufo phenomenon

487
00:17:26,789 --> 00:17:25,760
can be seen from these different lenses

488
00:17:29,909 --> 00:17:26,799
the psychic

489
00:17:32,549 --> 00:17:29,919
the physical and the trans physical

490
00:17:34,150 --> 00:17:32,559
keep that in mind as we now look at each

491
00:17:36,310 --> 00:17:34,160
of the main hypotheses

492
00:17:38,950 --> 00:17:36,320
put forward to address the ufo

493
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:38,960
phenomenon

494
00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:41,120
so let's begin with the prosaic

495
00:17:45,909 --> 00:17:42,000
explanations

496
00:17:46,789 --> 00:17:45,919
ago dismissed because they definitely

497
00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:46,799
don't

498
00:17:51,029 --> 00:17:48,480
take into account the fullness of the

499
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:51,039
data in any way whatsoever

500
00:17:54,870 --> 00:17:53,120
but prosaic explanations would be

501
00:17:57,990 --> 00:17:54,880
something of human origin or

502
00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:58,000
otherwise mundane explanations could be

503
00:18:03,110 --> 00:18:01,360
a military exercise could be atmospheric

504
00:18:05,990 --> 00:18:03,120
conditions that are noticed of course

505
00:18:07,990 --> 00:18:06,000
some people have mentioned birds

506
00:18:09,750 --> 00:18:08,000
these are prosaic explanations put

507
00:18:10,870 --> 00:18:09,760
forward to make sense of the ufo

508
00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:10,880
phenomenon

509
00:18:16,950 --> 00:18:14,480
that's number one prosaic

510
00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:16,960
next let's take a look at hypotheses

511
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:18,240
that you could group within

512
00:18:23,750 --> 00:18:21,360
the physical nuts and bolts category

513
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:23,760
these are consisting of material objects

514
00:18:27,190 --> 00:18:25,440
or creatures

515
00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:27,200
so we've discussed the extraterrestrial

516
00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:29,200
hypothesis of course many times on this

517
00:18:31,830 --> 00:18:30,240
podcast

518
00:18:33,350 --> 00:18:31,840
that would fit within the physical

519
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:33,360
category

520
00:18:37,510 --> 00:18:35,280
because these are actual beings within

521
00:18:40,630 --> 00:18:37,520
our physical universe that are traveling

522
00:18:43,190 --> 00:18:40,640
vast distances in spacecraft presumably

523
00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:43,200
to interact with us everything about

524
00:18:46,789 --> 00:18:44,160
that

525
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:46,799
explanation is physical and fits within

526
00:18:51,190 --> 00:18:47,360
our

527
00:18:53,110 --> 00:18:51,200
understanding of physics

528
00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:53,120
the crypto-terrestrial hypothesis which

529
00:18:55,909 --> 00:18:55,120
we've also discussed on this podcast in

530
00:18:59,110 --> 00:18:55,919
fact there was one

531
00:19:00,549 --> 00:18:59,120
entire episode dedicated to it also fits

532
00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:00,559
within this physical

533
00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:03,039
nuts and bolts kind of category because

534
00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:05,360
this is a sister humanoid species

535
00:19:08,789 --> 00:19:07,280
living again in our physical reality

536
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:08,799
within our physical universe

537
00:19:13,270 --> 00:19:11,840
in fact living here on the earth albeit

538
00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:13,280
in stealthy ways

539
00:19:16,310 --> 00:19:15,440
so both of those fit within the physical

540
00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:16,320
category

541
00:19:21,909 --> 00:19:19,520
nuts and bolts so to speak

542
00:19:22,950 --> 00:19:21,919
next up are a series of hypotheses you

543
00:19:25,510 --> 00:19:22,960
could group within

544
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:25,520
the mental category in other words

545
00:19:30,549 --> 00:19:27,200
produced by the mind's function

546
00:19:32,789 --> 00:19:30,559
or its dysfunction now one kind of

547
00:19:33,750 --> 00:19:32,799
mental explanation would be remotely

548
00:19:35,510 --> 00:19:33,760
induced

549
00:19:37,669 --> 00:19:35,520
this could be things like psychotronic

550
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:37,679
weapons where energy weapons are

551
00:19:41,350 --> 00:19:39,600
directed at people's minds and it makes

552
00:19:43,110 --> 00:19:41,360
them see things or experience

553
00:19:45,029 --> 00:19:43,120
aspects of reality that are not quote

554
00:19:47,350 --> 00:19:45,039
unquote really there

555
00:19:49,190 --> 00:19:47,360
hypnosis could be another kind of mental

556
00:19:50,950 --> 00:19:49,200
control that makes people experience

557
00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:50,960
these kinds of things

558
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:54,240
telepathy is another kind of course

559
00:19:57,350 --> 00:19:56,480
disinformation campaigns where people

560
00:19:59,990 --> 00:19:57,360
read things

561
00:20:01,190 --> 00:20:00,000
and it changes their view of reality and

562
00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:01,200
makes them

563
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:03,280
then end up perceiving things presumably

564
00:20:07,270 --> 00:20:05,280
that they wouldn't otherwise

565
00:20:09,190 --> 00:20:07,280
this is all fitting within the mental

566
00:20:12,789 --> 00:20:09,200
category

567
00:20:14,230 --> 00:20:12,799
neurological problems like medical

568
00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:14,240
conditions

569
00:20:17,909 --> 00:20:16,080
this would also fit within a mental

570
00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:17,919
explanation

571
00:20:22,870 --> 00:20:20,480
we also have psychosocial elements would

572
00:20:24,630 --> 00:20:22,880
also fit within this mental category

573
00:20:27,029 --> 00:20:24,640
so for instance religions that are

574
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:27,039
formed around ufos or uap

575
00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:28,960
would also fit within this again it's

576
00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:31,840
all about the mind projecting ideas

577
00:20:38,310 --> 00:20:35,840
that determine people's views

578
00:20:39,669 --> 00:20:38,320
as we continue our quick trip around the

579
00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:39,679
full spectrum

580
00:20:45,110 --> 00:20:42,320
of hypotheses put forward to explain the

581
00:20:47,110 --> 00:20:45,120
origins of ufos or uap

582
00:20:48,390 --> 00:20:47,120
next up we have the interdimensional

583
00:20:49,909 --> 00:20:48,400
category

584
00:20:52,310 --> 00:20:49,919
and as i have talked about on different

585
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:52,320
podcasts this can cover a variety of

586
00:20:55,510 --> 00:20:53,280
hypotheses

587
00:20:57,190 --> 00:20:55,520
and it's postulated different ways by

588
00:20:59,029 --> 00:20:57,200
different people

589
00:21:01,669 --> 00:20:59,039
of course a parallel universe would fit

590
00:21:04,149 --> 00:21:01,679
within this interdimensional hypothesis

591
00:21:05,830 --> 00:21:04,159
and chocolate's passport to magonia

592
00:21:07,590 --> 00:21:05,840
would be a good book to look into to

593
00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:07,600
learn more about that

594
00:21:11,029 --> 00:21:10,000
the idea is that these beings these

595
00:21:13,270 --> 00:21:11,039
intelligences are

596
00:21:15,669 --> 00:21:13,280
traveling to or interacting with our

597
00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:15,679
universe from an external position in

598
00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:16,480
other words from

599
00:21:21,270 --> 00:21:19,679
outside of our physical universe time

600
00:21:23,510 --> 00:21:21,280
travel would also fit within this

601
00:21:26,149 --> 00:21:23,520
interdimensional category

602
00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:26,159
a colliding universe which was discussed

603
00:21:30,549 --> 00:21:27,600
in whitley strieber's

604
00:21:35,029 --> 00:21:30,559
a new world would also fit here as would

605
00:21:38,950 --> 00:21:37,029
so as you're probably noticing we're

606
00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:38,960
stepping it up a couple notches with

607
00:21:42,789 --> 00:21:40,720
each of these categories

608
00:21:44,870 --> 00:21:42,799
we began with the most simple the

609
00:21:45,430 --> 00:21:44,880
prosaic explanations suggesting that

610
00:21:47,510 --> 00:21:45,440
nothing at

611
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:47,520
all unusual is really happening it's

612
00:21:52,549 --> 00:21:49,200
just meteorological

613
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:52,559
uh effects or foreign adversaries

614
00:21:57,510 --> 00:21:54,960
aircraft things like that then we move

615
00:21:59,350 --> 00:21:57,520
to the physical nuts and bolts which is

616
00:22:00,789 --> 00:21:59,360
more complicated and obviously involves

617
00:22:03,270 --> 00:22:00,799
things like ets

618
00:22:05,110 --> 00:22:03,280
or cryptoterrestrials but it still

619
00:22:07,110 --> 00:22:05,120
involves our physical universe and

620
00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:07,120
doesn't diverge from any of our known

621
00:22:12,149 --> 00:22:09,679
understandings of physics we also

622
00:22:13,830 --> 00:22:12,159
consider the mental aspect which steps

623
00:22:15,990 --> 00:22:13,840
it up a notch because it might involve

624
00:22:18,789 --> 00:22:16,000
things like psychotronic weapons

625
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:18,799
or neurological disorders or even

626
00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:19,760
complex

627
00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:22,000
psychosocial elements tied to religion

628
00:22:25,909 --> 00:22:24,080
and things like that

629
00:22:28,789 --> 00:22:25,919
then we move to the interdimensional

630
00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:28,799
category and that really upped the ante

631
00:22:32,549 --> 00:22:30,400
to discussing things like parallel

632
00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:32,559
universes time travel by the way

633
00:22:37,029 --> 00:22:35,120
i did an entire podcast episode on the

634
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:37,039
possibility that perhaps

635
00:22:40,149 --> 00:22:38,880
the beings visiting us or at least some

636
00:22:42,870 --> 00:22:40,159
of them are

637
00:22:44,230 --> 00:22:42,880
us from the future but perhaps with a

638
00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:44,240
genome spliced with

639
00:22:50,390 --> 00:22:48,240
other biological life forms from earth

640
00:22:51,990 --> 00:22:50,400
again cladding universe hyperspace all

641
00:22:53,350 --> 00:22:52,000
fits within the interdimensional

642
00:22:55,750 --> 00:22:53,360
category

643
00:22:59,110 --> 00:22:55,760
we've got one more left that's the extra

644
00:23:02,390 --> 00:23:00,710
now to be clear with the

645
00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:02,400
ultra-terrestrial category

646
00:23:06,830 --> 00:23:05,120
that involved various hypotheses that

647
00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:06,840
had to do with the manipulation of

648
00:23:10,149 --> 00:23:08,080
space-time

649
00:23:12,549 --> 00:23:10,159
using methods beyond our current

650
00:23:15,669 --> 00:23:12,559
scientific understanding

651
00:23:17,909 --> 00:23:15,679
the extra-dimensional category is

652
00:23:19,590 --> 00:23:17,919
about having a fundamentally different

653
00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:19,600
relationship to space-time

654
00:23:23,830 --> 00:23:22,720
altogether and this groups together a

655
00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:23,840
variety of

656
00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:25,840
hypotheses everything from the

657
00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:27,360
simulation hypothesis

658
00:23:30,789 --> 00:23:30,240
which takes it up an entire different

659
00:23:32,630 --> 00:23:30,799
league

660
00:23:37,270 --> 00:23:32,640
because here we're talking about reality

661
00:23:39,029 --> 00:23:37,280
itself being not what we think it is

662
00:23:40,870 --> 00:23:39,039
by the way for those of you interested

663
00:23:43,350 --> 00:23:40,880
in this simulation hypothesis

664
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:43,360
i would point you to episodes number 12

665
00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:44,640
and 18

666
00:23:47,669 --> 00:23:46,240
if you haven't heard them already where

667
00:23:49,190 --> 00:23:47,679
we discussed that from a couple

668
00:23:50,710 --> 00:23:49,200
different angles

669
00:23:52,950 --> 00:23:50,720
and in the future by the way we're going

670
00:23:55,029 --> 00:23:52,960
to do a podcast episode dedicated to

671
00:23:58,710 --> 00:23:55,039
michael taubo's excellent book

672
00:24:00,630 --> 00:23:58,720
the holographic universe now also within

673
00:24:02,549 --> 00:24:00,640
this extra-dimensional category

674
00:24:05,110 --> 00:24:02,559
would be the beings of light or the

675
00:24:06,070 --> 00:24:05,120
celestial beings that people often refer

676
00:24:08,310 --> 00:24:06,080
to

677
00:24:09,269 --> 00:24:08,320
this is somewhat of a subset of the ufo

678
00:24:11,029 --> 00:24:09,279
phenomenon

679
00:24:13,669 --> 00:24:11,039
some people might not even consider part

680
00:24:17,110 --> 00:24:13,679
of the same category really not really

681
00:24:17,990 --> 00:24:17,120
a ufo experience but really it does all

682
00:24:19,909 --> 00:24:18,000
fit together

683
00:24:21,909 --> 00:24:19,919
and it's complicated because often

684
00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:21,919
people's world view will determine how

685
00:24:26,149 --> 00:24:23,760
they describe these things

686
00:24:27,590 --> 00:24:26,159
so someone with a religious background

687
00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:27,600
particularly christianity

688
00:24:30,789 --> 00:24:29,120
is going to describe these things

689
00:24:34,070 --> 00:24:30,799
literally as angels

690
00:24:36,390 --> 00:24:34,080
and in some cases demons because that's

691
00:24:37,909 --> 00:24:36,400
what makes sense to them based on how

692
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:37,919
they think about reality how they've

693
00:24:41,430 --> 00:24:39,760
been taught about reality

694
00:24:43,909 --> 00:24:41,440
but even people who aren't particularly

695
00:24:47,190 --> 00:24:43,919
religious will describe these entities

696
00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:47,200
as beings of light as very much

697
00:24:51,590 --> 00:24:49,440
not physical beings in any sense that

698
00:24:53,190 --> 00:24:51,600
they don't have a relationship with our

699
00:24:55,029 --> 00:24:53,200
physical reality

700
00:24:57,029 --> 00:24:55,039
and in that sense they often think of

701
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:57,039
them as creator kind of beings that are

702
00:24:59,909 --> 00:24:57,600
coming

703
00:25:00,950 --> 00:24:59,919
into this universe from some external

704
00:25:02,950 --> 00:25:00,960
position

705
00:25:07,269 --> 00:25:02,960
that really is outside space time

706
00:25:10,630 --> 00:25:09,510
now beyond the main categories we've

707
00:25:12,470 --> 00:25:10,640
already discussed

708
00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:12,480
and the various hypotheses that fall

709
00:25:17,029 --> 00:25:14,720
within those different categories

710
00:25:18,390 --> 00:25:17,039
there are some even more out there ideas

711
00:25:21,430 --> 00:25:18,400
that really stretch

712
00:25:23,669 --> 00:25:21,440
things even more ideas like tulpas

713
00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:23,679
here the idea is that human beings are

714
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:25,840
actually somehow manifesting

715
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:28,320
these realities that they are real that

716
00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:30,640
they have a physical reality

717
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:32,880
they are actually manifesting in

718
00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:34,000
measurable ways

719
00:25:37,590 --> 00:25:36,640
in our reality but it's still a

720
00:25:40,870 --> 00:25:37,600
projection

721
00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:40,880
that ultimately finds its root in human

722
00:25:44,789 --> 00:25:42,400
consciousness

723
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:44,799
now you might think this sounds bizarre

724
00:25:48,470 --> 00:25:46,720
and unlikely but there have been some

725
00:25:51,269 --> 00:25:48,480
amazing cases

726
00:25:53,029 --> 00:25:51,279
where groups have got together imagined

727
00:25:55,909 --> 00:25:53,039
a certain character

728
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:55,919
projected this and then started getting

729
00:25:59,510 --> 00:25:56,960
responses

730
00:26:01,669 --> 00:25:59,520
in things like a seance to suggest that

731
00:26:04,310 --> 00:26:01,679
this being that they imagined together

732
00:26:08,230 --> 00:26:04,320
has taken on some sort of reality

733
00:26:10,950 --> 00:26:08,240
bizarre and yet documented as true

734
00:26:13,029 --> 00:26:10,960
another possibility is that this is a

735
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:13,039
manifestation of our collective

736
00:26:16,549 --> 00:26:15,840
unconscious or of the life force itself

737
00:26:18,549 --> 00:26:16,559
that

738
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:18,559
the life force whatever you consider

739
00:26:22,950 --> 00:26:20,240
that to be manifest

740
00:26:24,789 --> 00:26:22,960
certain realities at certain points in

741
00:26:29,430 --> 00:26:24,799
our evolutionary history

742
00:26:33,909 --> 00:26:32,070
now as i mentioned in the introduction

743
00:26:36,230 --> 00:26:33,919
when you look into this phenomenon

744
00:26:38,310 --> 00:26:36,240
for any amount of time with any amount

745
00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:38,320
of committed energy

746
00:26:42,950 --> 00:26:40,400
it inevitably leads to some very

747
00:26:46,149 --> 00:26:42,960
perplexing but fascinating questions

748
00:26:47,269 --> 00:26:46,159
about ultimate reality itself it's

749
00:26:49,830 --> 00:26:47,279
almost impossible

750
00:26:51,590 --> 00:26:49,840
to not end up there when you really look

751
00:26:53,909 --> 00:26:51,600
at the data

752
00:26:56,390 --> 00:26:53,919
the truth is from what we can see not

753
00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:56,400
just in the ufo phenomenon but even

754
00:27:01,110 --> 00:26:58,799
in psychic research that's been done in

755
00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:01,120
parapsychological circles

756
00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:03,200
it seems to be the case that reality is

757
00:27:07,430 --> 00:27:04,240
amorphous

758
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:07,440
and really nebulous in nature

759
00:27:11,909 --> 00:27:09,360
and right now even though some won't

760
00:27:15,110 --> 00:27:11,919
admit it there are some crises going on

761
00:27:16,950 --> 00:27:15,120
within various scientific endeavors

762
00:27:18,950 --> 00:27:16,960
this is true certainly in the behavioral

763
00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:18,960
sciences in the physical sciences the

764
00:27:23,750 --> 00:27:21,120
biological sciences

765
00:27:25,590 --> 00:27:23,760
where they are coming across data much

766
00:27:27,350 --> 00:27:25,600
like what happened with physics with the

767
00:27:28,389 --> 00:27:27,360
double slit experiment and the quantum

768
00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:28,399
world

769
00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:31,360
where former notions are being thrown

770
00:27:35,430 --> 00:27:32,000
out the door

771
00:27:37,830 --> 00:27:35,440
so to speak

772
00:27:41,029 --> 00:27:37,840
and by the way speaking of that as the

773
00:27:43,750 --> 00:27:41,039
reality of the ufo phenomenon hits home

774
00:27:44,389 --> 00:27:43,760
both in the public and in our academic

775
00:27:48,149 --> 00:27:44,399
circles

776
00:27:50,470 --> 00:27:48,159
is happening now

777
00:27:52,630 --> 00:27:50,480
almost daily there are stories coming

778
00:27:54,710 --> 00:27:52,640
out now in mainstream media

779
00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:54,720
this seems to be finally hitting home

780
00:27:59,590 --> 00:27:56,720
for millions of people

781
00:28:01,029 --> 00:27:59,600
and soon will be billions of people as

782
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:01,039
that begins to hit home

783
00:28:04,230 --> 00:28:03,600
you're going to see some major wrestling

784
00:28:07,750 --> 00:28:04,240
going on

785
00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:07,760
in society because as i just pointed out

786
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:09,520
the reality of this phenomenon

787
00:28:14,389 --> 00:28:11,600
inevitably leads to some very

788
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:14,399
complex perplexing questions about

789
00:28:17,269 --> 00:28:16,000
reality itself

790
00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:17,279
and you're going to have all that

791
00:28:20,710 --> 00:28:19,520
happening at the same time now you might

792
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:20,720
not see it happening

793
00:28:24,870 --> 00:28:22,640
all at the same time you might see it

794
00:28:25,510 --> 00:28:24,880
happen step by step by step because it's

795
00:28:27,909 --> 00:28:25,520
going to take

796
00:28:29,430 --> 00:28:27,919
people some time to catch up with this

797
00:28:31,029 --> 00:28:29,440
data and process it

798
00:28:33,350 --> 00:28:31,039
remember a lot of us that are obsessed

799
00:28:36,549 --> 00:28:33,360
with this topic have been

800
00:28:38,630 --> 00:28:36,559
you know digesting this data for years

801
00:28:40,389 --> 00:28:38,640
but this is now hitting the general

802
00:28:43,669 --> 00:28:40,399
society and that's going to be very

803
00:28:47,190 --> 00:28:46,389
now speaking of that some people are

804
00:28:49,590 --> 00:28:47,200
frustrated

805
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:49,600
and even disappointed some are even

806
00:28:53,029 --> 00:28:52,000
disturbed by the fact that we don't have

807
00:28:55,029 --> 00:28:53,039
a solid

808
00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:55,039
polished perspective on the nature of

809
00:28:57,990 --> 00:28:56,480
reality itself

810
00:29:00,389 --> 00:28:58,000
let alone on the nature of these

811
00:29:02,389 --> 00:29:00,399
apparently non-human intelligences

812
00:29:03,830 --> 00:29:02,399
already in our midst and interacting

813
00:29:06,389 --> 00:29:03,840
with us

814
00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:06,399
now i don't take that view because as

815
00:29:09,750 --> 00:29:07,840
i've said before

816
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:09,760
i believe this journey is as much an

817
00:29:14,389 --> 00:29:12,000
adventure to be embarked upon

818
00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:14,399
with the enthusiasm and wonder of a

819
00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:15,360
child

820
00:29:21,750 --> 00:29:19,120
as it is a problem to be solved

821
00:29:22,950 --> 00:29:21,760
and on that note we've come to the close

822
00:29:25,750 --> 00:29:22,960
of another edition

823
00:29:26,389 --> 00:29:25,760
of the point of convergence podcast as

824
00:29:29,029 --> 00:29:26,399
always

825
00:29:30,389 --> 00:29:29,039
let's keep this conversation going and

826
00:29:32,710 --> 00:29:30,399
growing

827
00:29:34,230 --> 00:29:32,720
but until next time friends from deep

828
00:29:37,669 --> 00:29:34,240
within the blue ridge mountains